The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (2024)

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by Dr. Davis | Jun 22, 2018 | | 50 comments

The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (1)

The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (2)

We’ve lately been discussing (some would say obsessing) about the unique benefits of consuming the microorganism Lactobacillus reuteri, specifically the ATCC PTA 6475 and DSM 17938 strains (available from Swedish company, BioGaia, as the Gastrus product). Benefits such as increased skin thickness, dramatically increased dermal collagen, accelerated healing, reduced inflammation, preservation or increased bone density, turning off appetite, increased empathy, facilitation of fasting, increased libido, etc. are all mediated via L. reuteri’s unusual capacity to stimulate oxytocin release from the hypothalamus. So many of the most visible and measurable health benefits from our yogurt making with this strain of L. reuteri are due to higher levels of oxytocin.

But there are additional benefits to L. reuteri that don’t involve oxytocin but are due to this organism’s other properties, particularly its probiotic effects, in particular its anti-bacterial and immune-mediating/anti-inflammatory effects. These are just as fascinating, though not as outwardly visible.

Among the non-oxytocin benefits of L. reuteri(various strains) are:

    • Reduction of acid reflux and infantile colic
    • Potent suppression of H. pylori, the organism that can proliferate and cause stomach ulcers.
    • Suppression of C. difficile, the organism that can cause pseudomembranous enterocolitis, a life-threatening infection from proliferation of this species after antibiotics (though occurring “spontaneously” lately)
    • Reduction in antibiotic-associated diarrhea
    • Protection against some intestinal infections from toxic strains of E. coli, Salmonella, and Shigella (especially the ATCC 55730 strain)
    • Protection against gastric cancer
    • Reduction in chronic diarrhea (IBS?)
    • Immunomodulation via stimulation of CD4 lymphocytes in the stomach lining, similar to that seen in skin healing in the MIT studies, reflecting reduced inflammation.

Note that some of the probiotic benefits of L. reuteri are in the upper gastrointestinal tract. This is unusual, as most bacterial species that inhabit the human gastrointestinal tract only colonize the colon with sharply diminishing numbers as you ascend up the ileum and jejunum, with relatively few bacteria in the duodenum and stomach. But L. reuteri has the unique ability to colonize the stomach, duodenum, and upper small intestine. In fact, in the immunomodulation study cited above, L. reuteri strainATCC 55730 better colonized the stomach and duodenum than the colon.

This has prompted speculation that L. reuteri may be helpful in preventing and treating small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) that we have been discussing lately. It may also be helpful for dealing with troublesome recurrences that plague management of SIBO. Because L. reuteri is also resistant to many antibiotics, supplementation during SIBO antibiotic treatment may accelerate healing and better suppress recurrence by giving you a head start in repopulating and maybe even tip the balance in favor of SIBO eradication, given its broad antibacterial properties.

So L. reuteri supplementation that we are achieving via prebiotic-infused yogurt to amplify bacterial counts can, yes, make you look and feel 20 years younger. But it also provides some real and substantial gastrointestinal health benefits.

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  1. The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (6)

    Kevin and Debbie Stankey on July 3, 2018 at 7:49 am

    We are having some success with coconut milk. This morning we forgot to remove starter after 12 hours before both of us leaving for work. Can we still use some as a starter at around 20 hours?

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    • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (7)

      Bob Niland on July 3, 2018 at 10:23 am

      Kevin and Debbie Stankey wrote: «We are having some success with coconut milk.»

      Please do share what you’ve learned about that.

      re: «…we forgot to remove starter after 12 hours before both of us leaving for work. Can we still use some as a starter at around 20 hours?»

      Very probably.

      The bounds of the starter pull window are constrained on the low end by math, and on the high end by substrate exhaustion (and eventually, opportunistic microbes).

      When is “too soon” depends on what amount of saved starter you use, and how large the subsequent batch is. Ijust ran the numbers for another inquiry on this. Using 2fl.oz. for starter, from a ½gallon batch, requires at least 15hours to get back up to 2BCFU in that 2oz. With a larger starter doses, you can save off starter earlier. For smaller doses, and/or a larger batch, wait longer.

      On the upper end, once all the simple and polymer saccharides are consumed, the culture is going stop doubling, and start dying off, capping and then unwinding the CFUs that can be pulled. Also, extended brew times give stray environmental microbes opportunities to infect the batch.

      20 hours might actually be in the sweet spot range for pulling starter.
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      • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (8)

        Kevin and Debbie Stanley on July 3, 2018 at 4:57 pm

        We are using full fat coconut milk – 360 from whole foods. Following the recipe exactly, we are using the light in our oven. The temp stays right at 100 degrees when we leave the glass cap on the light (without the cap, it runs at 109) We use a glass mason jar with the lid on. After 35-36 hours, it is thickened somewhat, with some separation, but is much better after some time in the frig. it is certainly not thick like Dr Davis talks about, able to stand up on a plate, but thickened with a nice tangy flavor. We are still experimenting – right now we have a jar wrapped up in our heating pad on the second to lowest setting.

        Even though we have been dairy free for a while now, we tried using whole, grass fed milk. It just looked and tasted curdled. Maybe we should try using half and half next time.

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        • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (9)

          Kevin and Debbie Stanley on July 4, 2018 at 1:42 pm

          I have a picture of our latest batch….is there a way to post a picture?

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          • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (10)

            Bob Niland on July 4, 2018 at 3:34 pm

            Kevin and Debbie Stanley wrote: «…is there a way to post a picture?»

            To the blog, no.

            If you have somewhere else to host it, you can link to that in a comment, but embedding appears to be disabled here (and that seems to be a default for WordPress blogs).

            If you don’t have some photo host to use, Facebook might do (but not being or ever planning to be a Facebook user, that’s more that I know about that).
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  2. The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (11)

    Yolanda on July 2, 2018 at 1:56 pm

    Can we use whole milk instead of half and half to make the yoghurt?
    I eat close to a cup of yoghurt a day and that might be too much if it’s made with half and half?
    Thanks!

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    • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (12)

      Bob Niland on July 2, 2018 at 3:16 pm

      Yolanda wrote: «Can we use whole milk instead of half and half to make the yoghurt?»

      Yes. The result might not be as thick. I’ve used whole goat milk, and reconstituted powdered goat milk. Iactually never use retail half&half, using instead a home mix of one quart each of whole milk and heavy cream.

      Using just milk would in fact be preferable to using many half&half products, as they are loaded with emulsifiers, stabilizers, if not preservatives, that can interfere with fermentation.

      re: «I eat close to a cup of yoghurt a day and that might be too much if it’s made with half and half?»

      Can you tell me what the concern is? The main difference between milk and cream is fat (cream has more). More fat in the diet is generally encouraged (in the context of following the Wheat Belly or Undoctored dietary guidelines).
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  3. The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (13)

    Kevin and Debbie Stanley on June 29, 2018 at 5:29 am

    we wanted to share our success…we are using canned coconut milk – adding the tablespoon of sugar. We have purchased a yogurt maker and an instant pot – both were fails. It turns out that the light in our oven keeps the temp at 100 degrees. After 36 hours we removed the jar and placed in the refrigerator. It was somewhat thick, but continued to thicken as it cooled. Not thick enough to stand up on a plate, but enough to encourage us!

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  4. The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (14)

    Marie berrill on June 27, 2018 at 6:29 pm

    Hi,could anyone give me advice as soon as possible? I bought a yogurt maker that can be set for 36 hours and can regulate the temperature. I made half a batch, setting the temp to 40 , there was a lot of condensation and I lifted the lid ( after 10 hours) and checked the yogurt with a clean warm spoon to see if it was . thickening, it was . I checked twice more but it hasn’t thickened any further.. in a few hours time it will have been on the go for 40 hours. The instructions that cane with the machine advised not opening the machine , but their instructions were for making regular( 8 hour) yogurt . I won’t go into detail about the first two batches, I know what went wrong, but I am down to 5 BG tablets and want to succeede… it is turning into an expensive experiment !! If this lot doesn’t set, can any be reserved for the next batch, also, should I have not opened the lid?? I checked the mixture with a thermometer , just a regular one you use for people, it read 43, I had upped the temp slightly, to 42, so it looks like it is heating ever do slightly over…

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    • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (15)

      Bob Niland on June 27, 2018 at 6:46 pm

      Marie berrill wrote: «if it was . thickening, it was . …40 hours…43 (presumably °C, 109°F)»

      If it were my batch, I’d assume it’s as done as it’s going to get. And I would save some as starter.
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      • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (16)

        Marie Berrill on June 28, 2018 at 5:06 am

        Thanks Bob. Hardly thickened at all. Could I freeze most of it for future batches , and start a new one today? Perhaps the culture is not worth saving ?? Will freezing kill it off ? Do you think openingvthe container daises it not to thicken ? Perhaps I will run it fir a few hours with water to see if the temperature is correct. So much time and money invested for something that is not working fir me .. very disheartening.

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    • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (18)

      Ray on June 28, 2018 at 1:09 pm

      Marie,

      Use about 4 ounces of your thin yogurt as a starter in about 1 quart of half and half. I think your next batch will thicken within 24 hours or so. You can just store the remainder of the thin yogurt in the refrigerator for future batches. It should remain viable for weeks.

      Good luck!

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  5. The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (19)

    Steve C. on June 27, 2018 at 11:33 am

    97F should generally be the optimal temp. There are many other second order effects, including pH of growth medium, where you are in the bacterial growth cycle, and the availability and make-up of the available nutrients. Glucose and lactose will be helpful. 115F is simply too high and does nothing but impair the desired strain, extend the time significantly, and allow other pathogens that grow at 115 F to more rapidly grow.

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    • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (20)

      Mike on June 27, 2018 at 2:16 pm

      While what you have said makes sense and I have had good results making the yogurt at 106-108 and 101-102 (better), I am not aware that these strains in particular have been studied for optimal temperature. That said, here is a paper which indicates that the ideal temperature for another strain of Lactobacillus Reuteri is actually closer to 86F (30 C):
      http://www.omicsonline.org/proceedings/influence-of-temperature-and-ph-on-the-growth-of-lactobacillus-reuteri-atcc-23272-using-optical-density-assay-56467.html

      Given good results at around 100, I will likely continue with my warming drawer, though I do have an old hotplate that I used to use for sprouting grains (pre-undoctored, LOL) that I could probably put to good use for this purpose quite easily.

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  6. The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (21)

    Richard on June 27, 2018 at 9:52 am

    I am just getting started with trying to make yogurt the method recommended by Dr. Davis.
    Using the pro-biotic and inulin and whole milk. I’m using the oven. I’m not sure how well it regulates. I’m pre heating to as close to the recommended 110% as possible. After 24 hours
    I have hot milk with a film on it. Do you have any suggestions.

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    • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (22)

      Bob Niland on June 27, 2018 at 11:06 am

      Richard wrote: «I’m using the oven. I’m not sure how well it regulates.»

      Regardless of what equipment is used to make this (or any) yogurt, the average temperature, and the regulation range, need to be known. My recommendation is to make at least one trial run with plain water and a probe thermometer.

      Both as a proof of concept, and because the yogurt cycle on our not-so-smart-pot has no temperature adjustment, I made up an ad-hoc reactor with materials most people will have around the home (more below).

      re: «I’m pre heating to as close to the recommended 110% as possible.»

      If the temperature went much above 115°F, culture growth probably slowed significantly. If it managed to get over 122, it may have stopped completely. Idon’t know at what temperature the L.reuts are killed outright.

      re: «I have hot milk with a film on it. Do you have any suggestions.»

      If you’re planning to write it off anyway, you might salvage: put it in the fridge, then later run a pasteurization cycle on it, add more culture, and re-try after you have a setup that runs within the desired temperature range.

      My ad-hoc experiment was at 98°F, and using an experimental recipe. It appears that we can make this yogurt at a lower temperature, and that it would then require a much shorter incubation time, but I won’t have any actionable insight on that until the next test batch.

      In the meantime, I would advise people to not buy so-called yogurt makers, or programmable pots with so-called yogurt cycles. Asous vide machine might be OK, but only if you also have uses for it beyond yogurt.
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  7. The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (23)

    Bryn on June 26, 2018 at 4:53 am

    I started making my first batch a week ago using a yoghurt maker. I’ve found the temp goes up to 120 if left overnight and the yoghurt becomes thin. It still smells cheesy so I’m consuming it but decided I had killed lr off and started a new batch all over using a simple yoghurt maker which is like an insulted flask to which you add hot to boiling water in which you then immerse a sealed container with your prepared milk, inulin and tablets or starter,
    The temps have been lower in this., up to about 109f. But reading about your 97f temps seems to fit in with what has been happening to my yoghurt. I also have found that if I leave it over 24 hours it seems to loose the thicker consistency. This may have been related to the temp though. I’m am looking forward to starting a second batch using a few tbspns from my current batch. I’m making a smoothie with my current batch plus my earlier batch that went very thin. I add 1 tsp spirulina and stevia drops, to make quite a nice drink. Sadly I suspect it is impacting my blood sugar ( higher than should be) however I intend to persist for a while and will give the occasional update. I am using pasteurised and hom*ogenized full cream cows milk. PS I’m from New Zealand.

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  8. The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (24)

    Kelly on June 25, 2018 at 6:43 pm

    Can a person use Organic Kefir rather than organic 1/2 & 1/2 as a starter liquid? (Lifeway Organic whole milk’ cultured after pasteurization?)

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    • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (25)

      Bob Niland on June 25, 2018 at 9:23 pm

      Kelly wrote: «Can a person use Organic Kefir rather than organic 1/2 & 1/2 as a starter liquid?»

      As starter for a kefir-style yogurt: probably.
      As starter or substrate for Biogaia® Gastrus® yogurt (BGY): no, and no.

      A live-culture kefir is teeming with microbes, which if preserved, could be used to make more kefir, or probably a yogurt, using more substrate (dairy, perhaps plus some simple carbs).

      But because it’s already fermented, a kefir can’t be used for the BGY here, because the carbon substrate is already largely gone, consumed by the kefir grains. Also, the kefir microbes would compete with the L.reuteri in the the Gastrus, and I can’t predict who’d win.
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  9. The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (26)

    Ray on June 25, 2018 at 10:46 am

    I have cultured BioGaia Gastrus twice starting with single tablet (and many times from the subsequent cultures). When starting with a single tablet it is useful to step up the culture. Start with about an ounce of sterile milk and the crushed tablet. 24 hours later add 2 more ounces of sterile milk; 24 hours later 4 more ounces; 24 hours later 8 ounces. After 24 additional hours you should have a reasonably thick starter which you can store in your refrigerator. Two or three tablespoons of this starter in a ~1 quart of half and half should culture firm in about 12 hours at 100 degrees F. A heaping tablespoon of this resulting culture in a quart of half and half will also firm up reliably within 12 hours.

    I culture BioGaia at 100 degrees F and traditional yogurt cultures at 110 – 112F, with good results. I use a DIY water bath using a temperature controller and a hot-plate which can maintain the temperature within a couple of degrees F.

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  10. The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (27)

    Kevin Deborah Stanley on June 25, 2018 at 8:59 am

    Does the yogurt have to solidify in order to get the benefits? You know, be able to drink it like kefir.

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    • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (28)

      Bob Niland on June 25, 2018 at 9:40 am

      Kevin Deborah Stanley wrote: «Does the yogurt have to solidify in order to get the benefits?»

      That doesn’t seem to be a requirement. We’ve been consuming ours by making it an ingredient in the morning smoothie, so we really don’t care whether it’s like heavy cream, curdy, or firm. When we get a really watery fraction, that gets cubed and frozen for use as starter.

      re: «You know, be able to drink it like kefir.»

      Consistently getting something that’s strictly liquid might be a challenge. If that’s the intent, I’d be tempted to deliberately make a kefir (and, sorry, no, I don’t have a recipe for that).
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  11. The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (29)

    Joe Guarrasi on June 24, 2018 at 4:06 pm

    Bob,
    Abundant thanks for your prompt response and keen interest in this very important- life alternating subject matter. As to your questions above:
    1. Starter was essentially a half batch consisting of16 ounces organic half&half, half tablespoon inulin, and 5 BioGaia tablet crushed. Combined 2 tablespoons of half&half with inulin and crushed BioG. tablets, whisking into a slurry then adding the remaining half&half. Then placed in Cuisinart yogurt maker for 12 hours, followed by auto cool for 6 hours, it turned out firm, smooth and tasteful;
    2. My concern again is reaching optimal fermintation (is there any way of testing CFUs, even a rough estimate)?
    3: I’m going to make another same size experimental batch today, this time I’ll measure the heat with a thermometer at the end of fermentation to test 110F maximum desired – perhaps this will provide a workable estimate going forward. I will report back. In this connection, Dr. Davis’ article calls for reserving a “few tablespoons” from the prior batch in place of crushed tablets in subsequent batches – in view of the half batche I’m making should I reduce the reserve batch to 1 tablespoon (or does it matter)?
    Too, Cuisinart calls for reducing fermintation time for subsequent batches to 6-8 hours vis-a-vis 12-14 hours for original batch – do you have any thoughts/comments on this?
    Looking forward to obtaining optimal results (for all), I remain with fondest regards, Joe

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    • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (30)

      Bob Niland on June 24, 2018 at 5:33 pm

      Joe Guarrasi wrote: «Starter was essentially…»

      What I’ve been doing is to use 10 crushed tablets only for initial batches. If the first batch was consistent, I saved off ¼cup for use as starter (to which I added no more Gastrus®). After the 5th generation, I added one new crushed tablet. I haven’t needed to do that in some time.

      When there’s substantial whey fraction, I save off all of the why into ice cube trays, and freeze it for use as future starter. I’m still using the first batch of that I ever collected.

      re: «…(is there any way of testing CFUs, even a rough estimate)?»

      You’d need, at the very least, a microscope which reports the field of view at magnificationX. Then dilute the yogurt by 10×, many times, so that you have few enough critters to count with the scope. Then do the math. Or invest tens of tho$ands in automated equipment that can do counts. So, instead, we sniff, taste, and watch for effects.

      re: «…Cuisinart calls for reducing fermintation time for subsequent batches to 6-8 hours vis-a-vis 12-14 hours for original batch…»

      That’s for traditional yogurt using common yogurt cultures (and by the way, I have near-zero experience with those). We need to be attuned to the specific requirements of the specific L.reut strains used here, which may well have different needs. I’m running a small experiment right now at 97°F, and have no guesses as to whether that requires any adjustment to fermentation time (or anything else).
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  12. The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (32)

    Joe Guarrasi on June 24, 2018 at 11:35 am

    Just made my third batch using a newly purchased Cuisinart Electronic Yogurt Maker (CYM-100C). First two consistencies were thin – preheated half&half to 180F, then cooled to 110F, then combined BioG & inulin base as directed; third batch was not preheated (which Cuisinart suggested in their video) and resulted in thick consistency. My concern now is the fermentation heat of the yogurt maker which as stated in the latest comments above needs to be under 110F. I could not find this information in the Owner Manual – would anyone know/has anyone had successful recents with this yogurt maker. Thank you

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    • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (33)

      Bob Niland on June 24, 2018 at 1:04 pm

      Joe Guarrasi wrote: «…third batch was not preheated (which Cuisinart suggested in their video) and resulted in thick consistency.»

      What were you using for starter for the subsequent batches? If saved yogurt, or saved whey fraction, one speculation is that the CFU counts from saved starter are dramatically higher than the 1B CFUs from 10 tablets.

      re: «My concern now is the fermentation heat of the yogurt maker which as stated in the latest comments above needs to be under 110F.»

      Optimal temperature might yet be revisited, but 110°F is what I’m still using for primary batches.

      re: «I could not find this information in the Owner Manual…»

      When picking an appliance:
      • Always download the manual first, and if you can’t, don’t buy it.
      If the appliance claims to be suitable for yogurt:
      • If it doesn’t state the yogurt temp, don’t buy it.
      • If it doesn’t state the regulation range, don’t buy it.
      • If the temp can’t be adjusted, don’t buy it.
      • If it can’t be set to run for at least 36 hours, don’t buy it.
      • If it doesn’t have a pasteurization cycle, don’t buy it.

      Yes, this is likely to mean that almost no purpose-built yogurt makers are actually fit for the full spectrum of intended use. You might end up with a sous vide instead.

      But we may not need sophisticated equipment for this specific yogurt. I’m running test with a cooler and shop light that were at hand.
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  13. The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (34)

    DLM on June 23, 2018 at 8:27 pm

    “We’ve lately been discussing (some would say obsessing)”

    Heh (Kali). On another note, I was surprised and glad to find this: https://drdavisinfinitehealth.com/2015/09/loading-up-on-galacto-oligosaccharides/ as the first search result when I searched “GOS food sources” in Google. I guess that means it got plenty of hits? I’m not exactly sure how that works. That would seem the most logical to me though

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  14. The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (35)

    cremes on June 23, 2018 at 2:52 pm

    For those of you who want to maintain a steady temperature, I highly recommend the Sous Vide Supreme. I bought one of these years ago and have used it regularly for steaks, chops, poached pears, poached lobster, eggs, etc.

    Imagine my surprise when I used it as a yogurt maker and the product turned out great.

    I’ve been making the yogurt using half&half and a little potato starch. I’ve been maintaining 108F-110F for 30-36 hours to make each batch.

    Note that using a sous vide machine means the yogurt needs to be in a sealed container since it will be submerged for the duration. It maintains the temperature very closely for as long as you want. The yogurt will turn out a little thinner in consistency since none of the whey or moisture has a chance to evaporate during the process. I usually just drain it from the yogurt and let it set up. Super thick once it is drained!

    Give it a try.

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  15. The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (36)

    Diane P. on June 22, 2018 at 6:31 pm

    Can I just take the supplement?

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    • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (37)

      Bob Niland on June 22, 2018 at 7:23 pm

      Diane P. wrote: «Can I just take the supplement?»

      Not really. See this remark.
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  16. The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (38)

    Kevin and Debbie Stanley on June 22, 2018 at 5:29 pm

    We are so excited to try this but we are having trouble finding a yogurt maker that will maintain 110 degrees. We are getting ready to send back a Cosori instant pot that is steady at 104 degrees. Last week we returned our highly rated Cuisinart yogurt maker for the same reason – same temp. We tried twice in it and it never solidified.. Dr Davis , what kind did you use when using coconut milk? We are anxious to begin!

    Thanks!

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    • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (39)

      Bob Niland on June 22, 2018 at 6:15 pm

      Kevin and Debbie Stanley wrote: «…instant pot that is steady at 104 degrees.»

      I would actually have expected that to work. Peak reproductive temperature for these strains is reportedly 97°F. We have a Corsori (which I don’t recommend), that ranges between 105 and 115, but produces yogurt despite that.

      re: «…we returned our highly rated Cuisinart yogurt maker for the same reason – same temp. … it never solidified.»

      I’m thinking that there’s something else awry in your ingredients or process.

      I have, however, yet to make a batch that’s primarily coconut milk, so I won’t have any insights on that.
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    • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (40)

      Brian B on June 25, 2018 at 1:26 pm

      I have not yet been able to make a decent batch of yogurt with pure, canned coconut milk, which I blamed on my yogurt maker because it was producing temps over 120F. (I’ve used 2 TBSP of either inulin or sucrose per quart, plus the crushed tablets.) But maybe some of the blame should be on the coconut milk.
      Next I’ll try a yogurt maker that is reported to produce lower temps (95 – 105F). If that doesn’t work, I’ll try using dairy milk (I see Whole Foods Market carries A2).

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      • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (41)

        Bob Niland on June 25, 2018 at 2:10 pm

        Brian B wrote: «I have not yet been able to make a decent batch of yogurt with pure, canned coconut milk…»

        You probably have this covered, but for anyone else trying, be sure that the coconut milk or cream contains only coconut, with perhaps filtered water.

        re: «…which I blamed on my yogurt maker because it was producing temps over 120F.»

        That would likely wreck it, but even at a more ideal temp, coconut appears to be challenging.

        re: «I’ve used 2 TBSP of either inulin or sucrose per quart,…»

        I’m thinkin’ that for coconut, inulin alone won’t do. We must add some simple carbs that these L.reuts favor (such as glucose).

        re: «Next I’ll try a yogurt maker that is…»

        At this point, I wouldn’t encourage anyone to buy a dedicated yogurt maker, unless it provides precise control over a range of temps (90-120°F), can be set for at least 36 hours unattended, makes some credible claims about how well regulated the set temp is held, and has a pasteurization cycle. This may describe zero makers priced less than US$250.

        Future developments in fermentation investigations may result in yogurts with varying optimal temps.

        A sous vide might be a more suitable (and versatile) choice, but frankly, based on my recent cooler experiment (above), you can often configure an excellent ad-hoc reactor with stuff found around the home.

        re: «If that doesn’t work, I’ll try using dairy milk (I see Whole Foods Market carries A2).»

        An alternative to liquid whole A2 bovine milk is goat or sheep, and plan W (web order) for that is powdered. I’ve made several batches with Mt.Capra powdered whole goat milk. Avoid the M.C. non-fat product. Be cautious about any other brands, as the common one is loaded with troubling amendments. M.C. is just goat. Do not use tap water to reconstitute the milk.
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        • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (42)

          John L on June 26, 2018 at 1:45 pm

          My wife and I have encounted all of the issues mentioned in the comments and have come up with a process and equipment that works consistently for us.
          Process:
          1 Gal milk
          1/2 Gal cream.
          Heat the milk and cream to 190-200F and hold it there while stirring for 20 minutes. (This step is required to make it thicken consistantly.)
          Cool to 100F
          add:
          1 cup inulin
          first time only 10 crushed tablets after that, refresh it with 2 to 5 mores crushed tablets every couple of batches
          3 cups starter from previous batch if you have it.
          Mix in with spoon
          Put in the SlowCooker (See below) and set to 100F for 48 hours.
          When done:
          Stir with a powered mixer and put into containers.

          Equipment:
          Purchased a large, manual, ceramic slow cooker 2 Gal capacity. Hamilton Beach MODEL: 33182 $40
          PID controler off EBay Digital PID F/C SSR Thermostat Temperature Controller PT100 $12
          Solid state Relay $5
          thermocouple and plastic housing $5

          Made a little box for the controller and relay with a plug and an outlet for the Slowcooker.
          Because the response time on the slowcooker is so very long > 15 minutes, it takes a couple tries to get the controller happy.
          If I knew more about tuning PID controllers I could most likely make it work first time.
          it holds the slow cooker at 100F +- about 2 degrees.
          John.

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        • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (43)

          Jon on July 2, 2018 at 10:57 pm

          Hello, Mr, Niland:
          You wrote; “you can often configure an excellent ad-hoc reactor with stuff found around the home”.
          I’ve been using a large glass jar (originally a pickle jar, aprx, 1 gal. capacity) that I wrap w/ an inexpensive heating pad. I use some ‘recycled’ thin foam packing material & a piece of bubble wrap as a base to insulate the jar. I wrap that w/ a towel & then small blanket, to keep it warm.
          If I leave it too long, my ‘yogurt’ is more like ‘fresh cheese’ than yogurt.
          I’ve used 2 qt organic Half & Half per batch & made three batches w/ 10 tablets of BioGaia Gastrus. I’m about to start my next batch & I intend to use maybe 2 oz of my last batch as starter culture.
          Do you think 2 oz is enough? I can use 4 oz if you think that would be better.
          BTW, I really appreciate Dr. Davis’s work, & your contribution as well.
          Many thanks to both of you, for all you do to help share the great information this site provides.
          Also, I’ve written before about my very slow weight loss since I began wheat belly back in 2015. Since then, I’ve learned that a hormone imbalance is most likely the reason. Dr. Eric Berg’s videos relate how low testosterone (which I’ve been diagnosed w/) can be caused by ‘estrogen dominance’, partly due to hormones in ‘factory farmed’ meat, but soy products are considered to be a prime source of ‘xenoestrogen’ or ‘phytoestrogen’, either of which will greatly contribute to estrogen dominance because men don’t have the female’s ability to dispose of excess estrogen. I’ve found that Indole-3-Carbinol or Diindolylmethane can help lower estrogen, also dandelion root & milk thistle will help the liver process excess estrogen.
          In 2015 I weighed 263; on June 22 I weighed 213, so the herbs & supplements have been a help, but wheat belly is mainly responsible. My goal is to stay the course & lose 25-30 pounds more.
          Again I say “Thank You” for all you do.

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          • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (44)

            Bob Niland on July 3, 2018 at 8:22 am

            Jon wrote: «I’ve been using…»

            Neat. Is there a thermostat in the heating pad? What range of temperatures do you see in the brew?

            re: «I’m about to start my next batch & I intend to use maybe 2 oz of my last batch as starter culture.»

            That works, and no one seems to have discovered a limit to how long such generation-to-generation starter saving can be sustained. It’s probably a matter of eventual stray microbial contamination.

            When a prominent whey fraction is obtained, I suggest freezing in ice cube trays for use a future starter. I’m still using a batch of those from months ago. Once they are consumed I’m seriously thinking of doing a fresh 10-tab batch, and cubing almost all of it for starter.

            re: «Do you think 2 oz is enough? I can use 4 oz if you think that would be better.»

            Given ideal fermentation conditions, 2 fluid ounces should suffice. Using Dr.Davis’ doubling time numbers from an earlier blog post, if 10 tablets (2BCFU) are used in half a gallon, 2fl.oz. (1/32) of that mix reaches 2BCFU in 15hours. If you let it run 36 hours, that 2fl.oz. contains 256BCFU.

            re: «Also, I’ve written before about my very slow weight loss since I began wheat belly back in 2015. Since then, I’ve learned that a hormone imbalance is most likely the reason.»

            If not suggested previously, be sure to check off the list of usual suspects on weight loss stall.

            re: «…but soy products are considered to be a prime source of ‘xenoestrogen’ or ‘phytoestrogen’…»

            That’s just one of over half a dozen reasons why unfermented soy is discouraged on this program.

            re: «Again I say “Thank You” for all you do.»

            You’re welcome, and thank you.
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  17. The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (45)

    Teresa on June 22, 2018 at 1:38 pm

    I’m have all the ingredients to make but confused about temps. Do I mix it together and place it in my warming drawer at 110 degrees for 24-36 hours? I’m confused if I have to heat the mix higher before putting in at 110?

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    • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (46)

      Bob Niland on June 22, 2018 at 2:06 pm

      Teresa wrote: «Do I mix it together and place it in my warming drawer at 110 degrees for 24-36 hours»

      Optimal temperature is not yet nailed down. These bacteria reportedly don’t reproduce much above 122°F. Ibeen advising people to avoid using equipment that ranges over 115. Peak reproduction is reportedly at 97, but we don’t have any reports of people trying that yet (or what run time is ideal there).

      That 110° warming drawer might well suffice. I’m presently checking what ours runs at, and will probably run a test batch soon.

      re: «I’m confused if I have to heat the mix higher before putting in at 110?»

      Don’t do that. With raw dairy, or any uncertainty about equipment sterility, you can run a [re]pasteurization cycle on the milk and any simple sugars added. Take it to 180°F for 10minutes. Makes sure it’s cooled to 110 or lower before adding the culture/starter, and any prebiotic fiber.
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      • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (47)

        Mike on June 22, 2018 at 11:09 pm

        I can confirm that a warming drawer works well. On the second lowest setting my warming drawer maintained my mixture between approximately 104-108 F, with the surface of the drawer itself measuring a couple of degrees warmer, and the temperature starting at the lower end and gradually moving slightly higher over the 24 hour period, measured using an infrared thermometer. I obtained a thick, firm, tangy yogurt; however, the one thing I would do differently next time would be to cover the mixture. My yogurt had a thin yellow film over the top (which I removed as best I could) which I believe may have been caused by air moving over the open glass pan that I used. My yogurt was made using grass-fed half and half and potato starch as the base for the ground up Gastrus.

        It is still early, but I have noticed some positive results so far. Most startling was the loss of appetite I experienced within about 5-10 minutes of eating my first portion — I had never really experienced such a sudden loss of appetite like that. This effect has diminished since, though I have also been eating smaller doses since that initial portion as well. My regularity does seem to have improved, suggesting intestinal help, though so far I have not noticed any improvement in the night-time acid reflux I often experience several hours after dinner.

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        • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (48)

          Bob Niland on June 24, 2018 at 11:13 am

          Mike wrote: «I can confirm that a warming drawer works well.»

          And anyone who wants to try that needs to do likewise. On our range, the drawer itself, despite being electric and having 6 settings, turns out to be pretty unstable, and often swings too high. Another thought I had was to run it on high, and see what the stray heat did in the main oven bay above it (oven off). Not hot enough.

          Separately, I’m trying a batch in a jar, in a water bath in a steel pot, inside an insulated cooler, warmed by a 14W bulb in a shoplight. I had to go through several different wattages from boxes of old lightbulbs, before I found one that ran cool enough (this one is an old CFL — the light output doesn’t really matter — just the actual power consumption). Despite lacking closed-loop thermostatic control, it’s pretty easy to keep the temp at ±2°F of target, even unattended overnight. Power-off, the whole rig only drifts at 1°F per hour (probe in water bath).

          But it took 2 days of testing (with just water in the pot), to get a cooler configuration that worked. Off-the-shelf yogurt makers have only one job: and they seem to do it pretty poorly (Sous vide seems a better choice). It may be possible for people to get into yogurt making with materials and equipment already on hand.

          re: «…so far I have not noticed any improvement in the night-time acid reflux I often experience several hours after dinner.»

          Have you specifically done the SIBO challenge? What happens when you consume 20grams of mixed and varied prebiotic fibers per day?

          And of course, this line of inquiry presumes that someone is fully engaged on the Wheat Belly (2014+) or Undoctored diet and lifestyle. The current L.reuteri investigation aside, the prebiotic and probiotic aspects of the program would not be expected to have the same benefits for people on standard or random diets.
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          • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (49)

            Mike on June 25, 2018 at 6:40 pm

            Thanks for your comments, Bob. I have been very food and health conscious for most of my life, never liking processed foods and rejecting anything with trans fats and other nasty substances for about two decades. I gave up nearly all gluten over five years ago and have eaten paleo/primal for most of that time, eating grass-fed and wild meat and fish, bone broth, and mostly organic produce.

            I had been familiar with Wheat Belly for some time, but only started seriously reading the blog in the last couple of months, and have now been grain-free for the last month or so, with the exception of some gluten-free cake a couple of weeks ago for my birthday. I have eaten what most would consider low-carb for a long time, but admittedly do not like to count carbs and probably have often had more carbs from fruits and vegetables than your 15g per meal, though I have been cutting back and am being more conscious of how much I am eating. I have been making and using the yogurt for about two weeks.

            Despite my generally healthy eating, I have had some acid reflux issues and over the last couple years started having frequent irregularity. While the reflux seems a little better in the last year, I have generally been swinging from constipation to diarrhea about 80% of the time. Based on what I have read most recently on your site and others, SIBO seems likely (though I am new to the concept) as some prebiotics seem to cause or worsen diarrhea instead of helping, but I am one of those that it takes several hours to find out, not a few minutes. I do eat organic hummus quite regularly with raw vegetables and seem to mostly be okay with that, but the ones included with a couple of probiotic supplements I tried in the past apparently just made things worse. I also seem to do well with a ginger kombucha which doesn’t seem to have any added prebiotics and I have read that ginger is helpful for dealing with SIBO. I was happy that the Gastrus yogurt seems to be helpful also and really share Dr. Davis’ hope that it will prove effective in combating SIBO longer-term .

            As an update for the yogurt making, my warming drawer is a separate appliance, not part of the oven. Yesterday I made a completely new batch of yogurt with a quart of grass fed half and half, 1tbs of potato starch and 5 tablets of Gastrus. I used the lower setting of my warming drawer and based on my observations, it held the temperature at 101-102. I stopped the process at 21 hours and had an excellent firm, tangy yogurt. It seems that making yogurt does not require a lot of precision as the bacteria will want to grow given reasonable conditions, so would think one should just get in the ballpark and then use any method that will avoid significant temperature fluctuations, say below 95 and above 115.

          • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (50)

            Bob Niland on June 25, 2018 at 9:22 pm

            Mike wrote: «I have been very food and health conscious for most of my life, never liking processed foods and rejecting anything with trans fats and other nasty substances for about two decades.»

            Sounds like my story. Always something of a food wonk, and had been on Zone when a family member discovered the original Wheat Belly in 2011.

            re: «I have eaten what most would consider low-carb for a long time, but admittedly do not like to count carbs…»

            That’s usually not necessarily on an on-going basis. Once we figure out what to (mainly not) eat, low net carb is kind of automatic.

            re: «Despite my generally healthy eating, I have had some acid reflux issues and over the last couple years started having frequent irregularity.»

            This program seems to be revealing a lot of dysbiosis, and a lot of it may be SIBO (for which the subscription site has an evolving Protocol). Here’s an overview I wrote that frames the territory (it’s also on that site, but public).

            re: «…some prebiotics seem to cause or worsen diarrhea instead of helping…»

            You have some tenants that are picky about what you eat. Chances are they aren’t the tenants you want. You’re the landlord.

            re: «I was happy that the Gastrus yogurt seems to be helpful…»

            If, just guessing, you are harboring Helicobacter pylori, the notorious ulcer bugs, these (and related) Lactobacillus strains appear to be very effective at suppressing that. We’re never rid of H.pylori, of course, but it needs to be present at ancestral levels.

            re: «It seems that making yogurt does not require a lot of precision as the bacteria will want to grow given reasonable conditions…»

            I just made a batch at 98°F (97-100), and wrote up an article on the relatively primitive ad-hoc equipment I used to do it. (I might add that we won’t by trying the result until morning, so I won’t be linking that article here until I know the result is acceptable.)
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      • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (51)

        Brian on June 23, 2018 at 12:08 pm

        Regarding operating temperature of yogurt makers, I see that Amazon sells a yogurt maker by “CUSIBOX”, and one commenter says he/she measured the temperature at 105F. Another said they measured 35C, which converts to 95F.
        I may have to order one and give it a try, as my Eurocuisine yogurt maker is apparently too hot for this strain – I’m measuring 125F.

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        • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (52)

          Brian B on June 26, 2018 at 10:58 am

          Regarding temperature issues, I just received the yogurt maker from Amazon mentioned in my previous comment (CUSIBOX, B077T25BZX, $26.99). It is kind of cheap looking and simple – only an on/off switch. But an overnight test with a bowl of water produced a reading of around 95F after 2 hours and again after 12 hours, which may be a better temperature for this strain.

          My other yogurt maker was producing 125F. Not much industry uniformity in these devices.

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        • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (53)

          Pittsburgh Transplant on July 2, 2018 at 10:33 am

          I’ve made two batches of this with my Euro Cuisine yoghurt maker with no issues. I use half and half, heat to 180 momentarily, cool to 110, added pills with potato starch the first time and one pill and one container the second time.

          Can’t tell if there are benefits to the yoghurt, though I also haven’t been able to religiously eat it either.

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        • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (54)

          Brian B on July 3, 2018 at 3:03 pm

          I’ve tried making this yogurt from pure, canned coconut milk, for 48 hours. I’ve tried low temps (95F), high temps (125F), using sugar to feed the L. reuteri (1 TBSP/quart), and I also tried using inulin (1 TBSP/quart). None of these combinations produce acceptable yogurt – it’s thin (for yogurt) and only slightly sour. When I used sugar, you could still taste the sugar after 48 hours, which made the batch unusable for someone on this diet.
          I suppose I’ll have to try some A2 dairy milk next. Maybe the L. reuteri only likes lactose. (I’ve been avoiding dairy due to reactions.)

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          • The unique probiotic effects of L. reuteri - Dr. William Davis (55)

            Bob Niland on July 3, 2018 at 9:04 pm

            Brian B wrote: «When I used sugar, you could still taste the sugar after 48 hours…»

            That’s particularly interesting. It suggests that something is interfering with carbohydrate metabolism by the bacteria. We can probably rule out insufficient carbon substrate. You’ve probably eliminated all the other obvious suspects (like starter problems), which leaves just the coconut.

            I wonder if we can form some insight on the pH issue. Dairy milk is pH6.5-6.7, just slightly acidic. Coconut milk is reportedly pH6.1-7.0, which ranges more a bit more acidic to flat neutral. Ametabolite of these bacteria is lactic acid, so as the reaction progresses, the mix becomes more acidic. My guess is that coconut milk isn’t sufficiently different in pH to explain a dramatically reduced fermentation rate. I suspect something else in the coconut.
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